I hope I die before I get old
On Monday, Moorgard put a link on his blog to all his old mobhunter articles. Being an avid eq1 player for 5 years or there about I decided to read through them just for fun. Some of the things I found really surprised me:
- Here is him commenting on charm changes in Kael Drakkel after the world first kill of the Avatar of War by Legacy of Steel and Shock of Swords.
"Until then, we make a plea to Verant: keep your customers informed. Even though only 80 players were directly affected by the change to Kael, when you cripple one of the top guilds in the game, you cripple the dreams of tens of thousands of players across all servers who look to these guilds to give them hope for the future of EverQuest.
Hope like that is priceless to a company, and is irreplaceable once lost."
and
"So, Verant is saying that the change in Kael is not due to the Avatar of War being killed through the use of an unknown "bug." Rather, it addresses a general problem that has manifested itself in other ways within the city of the giants.
Tormax and Vindicator/Statue have had charmed giant pets used against them for a long time now. It's only been lately that pet aggro has been changed to allow 25-person raids against these ubermobs to be carried out successfully. Fixing such an obvious exploit is, without question, a good idea.
However, the timing in this case--as in other "bug fixes" by Verant--is certainly suspect.
Are we really supposed to believe that, had the AoW not been killed twice within a week, that this change was scheduled to happen anyway?"
- This is his general comment on a remark from Tigole about raiding in Sleeper's Tomb.
"If you don't know why that's so damn funny, it's time to get the hell out of Crushbone and try a real raid."
- Here is a little snippet from his take on instancing.
"So along comes instancing to solve all these problems, right? Well, not everyone thinks so. A lot of people like the competitive aspect of EQ, and argue that instancing dumbs things down too much. They don't want to see EQ become an ubermob-on-demand system where players can order up whatever content they want, when they want it.
They have a point. EverQuest is, after all, a massively multiplayer online game. If people want content all to themselves without working for it, there are plenty of single-player adventure games that should suit them. A big part of the appeal of EQ has always been that the people who put in the most time and effort reap the biggest rewards. Uberguilds should have access to content that others don't because the uberguilds have worked harder for it. Without those kind of rewards, players lose their motivation to beat the high-end content, and I suspect a lot of people would lose interest in the game."
- The last quote I am going to put up is Moorgard's opinion on encounters that are ridiculous and obviously have some problems with them like the Derivine Matron and the rewards that should come from them.
"But after weeks and weeks of the best guilds in the game all working on the same encounter without success, it's time to simply accept that the encounter is broken, either accidentally or deliberately.
Read the uberguild sites and boards. Almost all of them are losing people to boredom and frustration. That's what happens when your progress is halted--and it's the biggest danger for any gamer, whether you're at Ximix's level or Furor's. When people get too frustrated with a game, they move on. While there might not be a lot of compelling places for frustrated players to go at the moment, it's likely that there will be soon.
EverQuest is in need of two things right now, quite badly. First, it needs another full-blown expansion that will offer a lot of compelling content to the high-level but non-uberguild player. We're talking multiple zones that range in difficulty from just above NToV to Vex Thal, but without the bullshit hassles of a VT-like key quest. Second, it needs the Rathe Council to fall. Lock uberguilds into months of Plane of Time farming if you must, but the PoEB roadblock has to go, and the content beyond it has to make people drool. High-end players have to be able to say "yes, it was worth it" for the health of the game. Even players who will never reach that level of content care about it, and need to know it's out there and working.
So the question still remains: Does PoP suck? For some people, yes it does. And it's pretty important for that to change."
Following the links at the start of this entry you can read all his articles, and there are many more good little bits and pieces scattered around, especially if you are an old eq1 fan. The one thing I just have to say though is....
What the fuck happened Moorgard?
Evidentally you used to be on the good side. You used to understand and see all these issues we are constantly battling in eq2, only now your one of the people helping to keep them as problems. Seriously, whats the deal?
To use a phrase from Bart Simpsons, "What happened to you Moorgard, you used to be cool."
- Here is him commenting on charm changes in Kael Drakkel after the world first kill of the Avatar of War by Legacy of Steel and Shock of Swords.
"Until then, we make a plea to Verant: keep your customers informed. Even though only 80 players were directly affected by the change to Kael, when you cripple one of the top guilds in the game, you cripple the dreams of tens of thousands of players across all servers who look to these guilds to give them hope for the future of EverQuest.
Hope like that is priceless to a company, and is irreplaceable once lost."
and
"So, Verant is saying that the change in Kael is not due to the Avatar of War being killed through the use of an unknown "bug." Rather, it addresses a general problem that has manifested itself in other ways within the city of the giants.
Tormax and Vindicator/Statue have had charmed giant pets used against them for a long time now. It's only been lately that pet aggro has been changed to allow 25-person raids against these ubermobs to be carried out successfully. Fixing such an obvious exploit is, without question, a good idea.
However, the timing in this case--as in other "bug fixes" by Verant--is certainly suspect.
Are we really supposed to believe that, had the AoW not been killed twice within a week, that this change was scheduled to happen anyway?"
- This is his general comment on a remark from Tigole about raiding in Sleeper's Tomb.
"If you don't know why that's so damn funny, it's time to get the hell out of Crushbone and try a real raid."
- Here is a little snippet from his take on instancing.
"So along comes instancing to solve all these problems, right? Well, not everyone thinks so. A lot of people like the competitive aspect of EQ, and argue that instancing dumbs things down too much. They don't want to see EQ become an ubermob-on-demand system where players can order up whatever content they want, when they want it.
They have a point. EverQuest is, after all, a massively multiplayer online game. If people want content all to themselves without working for it, there are plenty of single-player adventure games that should suit them. A big part of the appeal of EQ has always been that the people who put in the most time and effort reap the biggest rewards. Uberguilds should have access to content that others don't because the uberguilds have worked harder for it. Without those kind of rewards, players lose their motivation to beat the high-end content, and I suspect a lot of people would lose interest in the game."
- The last quote I am going to put up is Moorgard's opinion on encounters that are ridiculous and obviously have some problems with them like the Derivine Matron and the rewards that should come from them.
"But after weeks and weeks of the best guilds in the game all working on the same encounter without success, it's time to simply accept that the encounter is broken, either accidentally or deliberately.
Read the uberguild sites and boards. Almost all of them are losing people to boredom and frustration. That's what happens when your progress is halted--and it's the biggest danger for any gamer, whether you're at Ximix's level or Furor's. When people get too frustrated with a game, they move on. While there might not be a lot of compelling places for frustrated players to go at the moment, it's likely that there will be soon.
EverQuest is in need of two things right now, quite badly. First, it needs another full-blown expansion that will offer a lot of compelling content to the high-level but non-uberguild player. We're talking multiple zones that range in difficulty from just above NToV to Vex Thal, but without the bullshit hassles of a VT-like key quest. Second, it needs the Rathe Council to fall. Lock uberguilds into months of Plane of Time farming if you must, but the PoEB roadblock has to go, and the content beyond it has to make people drool. High-end players have to be able to say "yes, it was worth it" for the health of the game. Even players who will never reach that level of content care about it, and need to know it's out there and working.
So the question still remains: Does PoP suck? For some people, yes it does. And it's pretty important for that to change."
Following the links at the start of this entry you can read all his articles, and there are many more good little bits and pieces scattered around, especially if you are an old eq1 fan. The one thing I just have to say though is....
What the fuck happened Moorgard?
Evidentally you used to be on the good side. You used to understand and see all these issues we are constantly battling in eq2, only now your one of the people helping to keep them as problems. Seriously, whats the deal?
To use a phrase from Bart Simpsons, "What happened to you Moorgard, you used to be cool."
posted by Ishbu at 3:32 PM
7 Comments:
Moorgard was the Ishbu of EQ1!
He is getting paid now, that is what happened...
He still has his blog unaffiliated with SOE and then of course, it wouldnt kill him to post saying hey, i agree with these issues and this is what we are trying to do or this is why we cant/wont do it or something. Just anything to make it feel like there is a reason to play this game as a raider.
Don't know what do for a living Ishbu, but I wager it's not game design. Same thing with Moorguard - he wasn't a game designer when he wrote that - he is now and has learned the errors of his previous ways.
High end raiding like you do in Dissolution and whoever is in the top 15 WW raiding guilds is limited to how few people? Well if Dissolution is any pointer then it is less than 500 people. Spending too much time catering to only 500 people out of a player mass of estimated 175.000 (http://mmogchart.com/), is simply not financially feasible.
This is also the reason that the Deathtoll access quest mobs got instanced - why spend time and lots of money making a zone that only 1-2 guilds on each server will ever see? If anything that will make the semi-hardcore guilds quit the game and that player mass is way bigger than the really hardcore mobs.
On your itemization rants (and there has been a few), just remember what happend way back in T5 when the items were darn cool and useful. As soon as you got a silvered tank (as a measurement of time you done raiding and equipping) all the contested and the zones became a walk-over. Thus making it really boring for the established raiding guilds (well semi) and thus making it nearly impossible for the want-to-be raid guilds to get contested (as the established would always have 1 or 2 grps online to kill either the x2s or x4s). What did SoE do? They made all the raid mobs harder with WoF and extra levels and also made all the zone mobs harder (perhaps with the exception of Rognog).
Biggest design flaw ever seen in a game as this effectively locked that content to the guilds that were already geared. New coming raid guilds would have to only kill Rognog and Drayek and well the items from these.. hmm kinda useless. They were completely barred from making any progress in the late T5 (this is also the reason btw why Cobalt armor rocked so hardcore - not a design flaw, but simply to level out the difference between a hardcore raiding tank and a semihardcore raiding tank).
Wanting the same things with T7 items will create the exact same issues. If the hardcore zones dropped really hardcore armor it would trivialize (even more than already) the rest of the raid mobs and especially the contested - you would be crying (and I guess with good reason) for harder mobs and harder content.
You have to think out of your own box - having a game designed to cater to the hardcore guilds will never happen. Vanguard will learn this the hard way (and they already are) if they don't change the attitude to the casual players. Bascially you play the game in a way it is not meant to be played and I doubt you will ever find a MMO that will cater to those with enough time and dedication for real hardcore raiding and if you do it will not live for long (unless you pay for it yourself.;).
I do agree with you on the broken items in the game - completely unacceptable considering how easy it really is to 'put' an item in the game.
Also your rants on Beta testing guilds are on the spot - that should never happen (especially considering it actually doesn't do anything that the SoE devs can't do with their simulated agents). Obviously the only reason they get to betatest is because someone knows someone who can make it happen (same reason some other guilds got into beta test on KoS - open beat test? - my ass).
BS - To the above poster, the easiest solution to debunk you whole point of view is ITEMIZATION and RAID PROGRESSION.
Design tiered encounters where you need to gear up in order to progress or you will get owned. This works two fold, because then the so called 'hardcore' guilds will have something to work towards, and the more casual guilds can then still spend the time on the easier encounters.
Everyone is happy, and the world is right again. Seriously if you think that the same content HAS to be available to everyone, then why bother limiting the number of people who can be in a raid. Just allow guilds with 200000 people zerg the shit out of a mob and then be done with it.
Some people choose to raid in this game, and that is what they want to do. Saying that just because they make up 5% of the games population, nothing should be tailored to them...is just as bad as others' saying nobody gives 2 shits about soloing.
It's the same old stupid argument over and over again. Nobody tells casual people how to play the game, so why is it alright for casual people to tell others how to play :/
First off, no Im not a game designer nor am I by any means creative enough to ever become one....art/creativty/etc was never my strong point.
High end raiding is extremely limited in this game, no more than 1-2 guilds per server and usually 40 or less people in those guilds. Do I really think they should only make content for players like me though? Definitly not.
It may be hard to beleive but I pretty much encompass all playstyles, only with more /play time. Yes, my main is a grind/raid first player and then go repeate any worthwhile quests or whatever after I have maxed out as much as possible. My first alt though is very group oriented all the way to 70 and my second alt has primarly solo'd up to level 53. My point is, I actualy use and see all this content for solo and group players and do enjoy it as well.
Sure, I am still biased towards raiding as that is my prefered method of playing, but in comparison I find far less to do on my main than on my alts. Basically I am never without things to do and Ive even considered turning off my xp bar before because I couldnt get everything done on my way through without starting to out level some of it.
As far as t5 raiding goes, that was a clusterfuck for a number of reasons. I think we can all agree that the game mechanics were screwed up enough that a well geared tank was almost invincible to most mobs. That got changed thankfully and I really dont see the same problems happening again in the future. As far as only top guilds being able to kill mobs once they upgraded them and added wrath of fury, well that might be just a difference of servers.
On my server before WoF and the changes to the daily instances there were 2 guilds that were capable of killing contested and the instances. After the changes, and by the time DoF was released there were 4 guilds and a raid alliance going after contested, and there were 7 guilds and a raid alliance doing the instances. Sure some of the harder contested were monopolized by the top guild or 2, but I still dont see a problem with that, and probably never will. I think it was just a matter of more people hitting the level caps. Broken mechanics aside, t5 was fun to raid and I never grew tired of it like I have DoF/KoS.
A lot of my animosity may stem from eq1. I wasnt a hardcore raider in eq1, I wasnt even a raider for 4 out of my 5 years. I was nothing more than a casual player. I never expected to have uber gear or anything that anyone in a high end guild would say, wow, thats nice, wish I had it. It wouldnt make sense for me to have items that good based on what I did in game. In eq2 though it seems the prevalent attitude is that everyone should be allowed to get teh same stuff weather they raid hardcore or barely raid at all, weather they kill the hardest raid mob or if they kill the weakest. That to me is just wrong.
As for the DT access dragons, yeah I think its obvious why they had to be instanced. I dont think they had to be made easier anyways. Look how many guilds have DT access, it certantly wouldnt have killed them to have to spend an extra week or two learning a slightly harder encounter. And my biggest gripe is that they essientially removed 3.5 contested from the game and offered no compensation. Contested get such a bad wrap these days because they are all "upper tier" and they are so few and far between is is trivial to monopolize them all. Back in t5 it was a real chore to monopolize them all on a server AND there were some easy, some medium, and some difficult ones so that it gave more players a sporting chance. If there were to be 15 contested in EoF ranging from level 72x2 all the way up to 75x4, I think we would see a lot more guilds killing them or being exciting for them to spawn at the least.
On a side note, Whoot! The two comments above this are probably the best discussion so far on my blog :)
"It wouldnt make sense for me to have items that good based on what I did in game."
Ishbu, I'm sure you'd just hate the PVP servers then, the PVP equipment that requires little more than killing grays for a few days straight is often amazing fabled gear, such as 10 seconds of 100% parry on a belt. Also some of the best 1h swords in the game, aside from Qeynos Rapier.
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