A Little of Column A, a Little of Column B...
Enter the Antechamber of Fate and it's champion: Chel'drak, the Ancient Lord.
Let me start by saying that so far, I am a big fan of this encounter. It has been very challenging, but there is progress being made and unless something goes crazy with the script, it definitly seems possible, just that it is going to take some hard work.
The encounter basically relies on all aspects of all classes. Your going to need some solid tanking and powerfull healing, combined with overwhelming dps. If your missing any of these three, dont bother zoning in, you dont stand a chance. I think that this makes every member of the raid important, wich is a good thing. I hate those fights where I know half the raid could have turned on auto attack and gone afk and it wouldnt even matter (like the crab instance).
For people who have not yet attempted this encounter, here's a basic run down, or at least some of what I know about the encounter thus far (minimal spoiler below, anything said can easily be figured out in under 45seconds of engagement):
- The encounter consists of Chel'drak the turtle dragon(aka the Turgon or Drattle)
- With Chel'drak are a handful of skeletons that are a seperate encounter, but are more or less linked to him (think alzid and vyemm)
- During the fight a Shadowy Priest/Fighter/Thief/Sorcerer will spawn and needs to be killed on a reoccuring timer
- Also during the fight a pair of skeleton adds will spawn that also need to be killed on a reoccuring timer
- Chel'drak himself his like a truck. He also has a poison AE that is going to be unavoidable. For this AE, think Cruor only more badass
- With all this going on, Chel'drak also has an AE stomp ability with knockback
I know it seems like a lot, but thats what a good encounter of this magnitude needs. A well tuned and organized raid force should be able to deal with most of these obstacles and with enough percevirence, be able to overcome the ones they are not able to initially deal with. I am having fun working through the encounter so far and pray everyday that it is not nerfed to accomodate less "hardcore" players. I was deprived my chance of beating the hard version of the Elemental Warder in Halls of Seeing because of a nerf, I do not want to have this taken from me as well, nor do I think it will be. Hats off to whomever came up with this encounter.
That was the "rave", now for the "rant". (bigger, although not huge spoiler to follow):
- a Shadowy Fighter: Can only be attacked by fighters. All priests/scouts/mages will be reflected should they attack it.
- a Shadowy Sorcerer: Can only be attacked by mages. All priests/scouts/fighters will be reflected should they attack it.
- a Shadowy Thief: Can only be attacked by scouts. All priests/mages/fighters will be reflected should they attack it.
- a Shadowy Acolyte: Can only be attacked by priests. All scouts/fighters/mages will be reflected should they attack it.
Can anyone tell me what could pose as a problem here? Ill give you a hint: While you have to be killing wichever random one of these 4 spawns every 30 seconds, you also need to be killing the turtle dragon and the skeleton adds that keep spawning. What kind of crazy ass raid has healers to spare should the acolyte spawn? Fighters do a measure of dps and can take/avoid hits better than anyone else, requiring them to randomly have to kill a single mob is not a big deal, even though my guild in particular, uses far less fighters than anyone else. Mages and scouts are born to do dps, so requiring them to kill a random mob is again, not a big deal. Preists are in a raid for healing!
I am fully aware that there are preists capable of doing fairly decent dps. That isnt the point. Chel'drak is going to require 3 or 4 healers keeping the tank and the tank group alive. There are going to need to be 1-2 other healers keeping up with the damage from the skeleton adds. I am just going to assume these 4-6 healers (4-6 depending on how severe that round of attacks were, for the harder hits, your going to NEED more than 4 healers) are also capable of keeping up with cures and heals on the rest of the raid from getting hit by the multiple ae's. Now you want healers, and healers ONLY to be killing a seperate add that shows up? WTF.
There is no way (that I know of) to predict wich shadowy mob will spawn, it seems purely random. This is what I can tell you about this raid. Your going to need probably 7-8 healers to reliably be able to take down a shadowy acolyte when/if they spawn at any point during the fight. Lets not forget that priests also do less dps than the other classes so the mob will die slower, resulting in an even longer duration where they cannot be healing (wich is their role). I dont know what kind of raid you role with, but 7-8 of a base archetype seems ridiculous to me.
My suggestions is remove the shadowy acolyte from the spawn table or for the love of god remove the randomness of the spawn. You can plan for the acolyte if you know it will spawn every 4th spawn. That is more manageable. The idea of forcing healers into a dps role on a fight that requires large amounts of healing to begin with seems stupid to me, thus the suggestion of removing the acolyte. Let the dps be required to dps, or do you plan on giving the dps some form of healing to make up for it? (NOTE - this would be a poor idea)
Last night we went after this mob with a mere 4 priests. We knew we were short staffed for the evening and didnt really plan on winning. The goal was to do as well as we could and try and figure out exactly what we would need to have a more reasonable chance. Here's what we found out: If the acolyte spawns, you need lots of healers to kill it and that is dumb. No matter how skilled your healers are, you need an excess of healers to cover this base and with some shitty luck (something we have been known to have) you could end up with the acolyte spawn 3 or 4 times in a row. Healers, in argueably the most challenging raid in game, do NOT have power to burn doing dps every 30seconds and forcing that is just a piss poor way of telling guilds they need to have others sit out in favor of more and more priests. For a guild like mine that only has 4 fighters, the shadowy fighter should be by FAR the most challenging of the 4 random mobs to deal with. We already have to be tanking Chel'drak and the skeleton adds that spawn, and then fighters need to be killing this mob too. That should be a problem for us, not that we need to get more healers than any other archetype because they need to heal a raid and be killing a mob on their own. I dont care if this is a heroic mob, the idea that a raid should have enough healers to heal a x4 orange con raid mob, some epic level 74 adds, AND be the only dps on level 74 heroic adds is stupid.
In summary, this is a fun, somewhat unique, and challenging encounter. I do like it, but I find the priest requirement foolish. Scouts and mages are meant to dps. Fighters are meant to tank and if not tanking dps. Healers are meant to buff and heal. Dont force healers to dps on top of their role. Its dumb.
Let me start by saying that so far, I am a big fan of this encounter. It has been very challenging, but there is progress being made and unless something goes crazy with the script, it definitly seems possible, just that it is going to take some hard work.
The encounter basically relies on all aspects of all classes. Your going to need some solid tanking and powerfull healing, combined with overwhelming dps. If your missing any of these three, dont bother zoning in, you dont stand a chance. I think that this makes every member of the raid important, wich is a good thing. I hate those fights where I know half the raid could have turned on auto attack and gone afk and it wouldnt even matter (like the crab instance).
For people who have not yet attempted this encounter, here's a basic run down, or at least some of what I know about the encounter thus far (minimal spoiler below, anything said can easily be figured out in under 45seconds of engagement):
- The encounter consists of Chel'drak the turtle dragon(aka the Turgon or Drattle)
- With Chel'drak are a handful of skeletons that are a seperate encounter, but are more or less linked to him (think alzid and vyemm)
- During the fight a Shadowy Priest/Fighter/Thief/Sorcerer will spawn and needs to be killed on a reoccuring timer
- Also during the fight a pair of skeleton adds will spawn that also need to be killed on a reoccuring timer
- Chel'drak himself his like a truck. He also has a poison AE that is going to be unavoidable. For this AE, think Cruor only more badass
- With all this going on, Chel'drak also has an AE stomp ability with knockback
I know it seems like a lot, but thats what a good encounter of this magnitude needs. A well tuned and organized raid force should be able to deal with most of these obstacles and with enough percevirence, be able to overcome the ones they are not able to initially deal with. I am having fun working through the encounter so far and pray everyday that it is not nerfed to accomodate less "hardcore" players. I was deprived my chance of beating the hard version of the Elemental Warder in Halls of Seeing because of a nerf, I do not want to have this taken from me as well, nor do I think it will be. Hats off to whomever came up with this encounter.
That was the "rave", now for the "rant". (bigger, although not huge spoiler to follow):
- a Shadowy Fighter: Can only be attacked by fighters. All priests/scouts/mages will be reflected should they attack it.
- a Shadowy Sorcerer: Can only be attacked by mages. All priests/scouts/fighters will be reflected should they attack it.
- a Shadowy Thief: Can only be attacked by scouts. All priests/mages/fighters will be reflected should they attack it.
- a Shadowy Acolyte: Can only be attacked by priests. All scouts/fighters/mages will be reflected should they attack it.
Can anyone tell me what could pose as a problem here? Ill give you a hint: While you have to be killing wichever random one of these 4 spawns every 30 seconds, you also need to be killing the turtle dragon and the skeleton adds that keep spawning. What kind of crazy ass raid has healers to spare should the acolyte spawn? Fighters do a measure of dps and can take/avoid hits better than anyone else, requiring them to randomly have to kill a single mob is not a big deal, even though my guild in particular, uses far less fighters than anyone else. Mages and scouts are born to do dps, so requiring them to kill a random mob is again, not a big deal. Preists are in a raid for healing!
I am fully aware that there are preists capable of doing fairly decent dps. That isnt the point. Chel'drak is going to require 3 or 4 healers keeping the tank and the tank group alive. There are going to need to be 1-2 other healers keeping up with the damage from the skeleton adds. I am just going to assume these 4-6 healers (4-6 depending on how severe that round of attacks were, for the harder hits, your going to NEED more than 4 healers) are also capable of keeping up with cures and heals on the rest of the raid from getting hit by the multiple ae's. Now you want healers, and healers ONLY to be killing a seperate add that shows up? WTF.
There is no way (that I know of) to predict wich shadowy mob will spawn, it seems purely random. This is what I can tell you about this raid. Your going to need probably 7-8 healers to reliably be able to take down a shadowy acolyte when/if they spawn at any point during the fight. Lets not forget that priests also do less dps than the other classes so the mob will die slower, resulting in an even longer duration where they cannot be healing (wich is their role). I dont know what kind of raid you role with, but 7-8 of a base archetype seems ridiculous to me.
My suggestions is remove the shadowy acolyte from the spawn table or for the love of god remove the randomness of the spawn. You can plan for the acolyte if you know it will spawn every 4th spawn. That is more manageable. The idea of forcing healers into a dps role on a fight that requires large amounts of healing to begin with seems stupid to me, thus the suggestion of removing the acolyte. Let the dps be required to dps, or do you plan on giving the dps some form of healing to make up for it? (NOTE - this would be a poor idea)
Last night we went after this mob with a mere 4 priests. We knew we were short staffed for the evening and didnt really plan on winning. The goal was to do as well as we could and try and figure out exactly what we would need to have a more reasonable chance. Here's what we found out: If the acolyte spawns, you need lots of healers to kill it and that is dumb. No matter how skilled your healers are, you need an excess of healers to cover this base and with some shitty luck (something we have been known to have) you could end up with the acolyte spawn 3 or 4 times in a row. Healers, in argueably the most challenging raid in game, do NOT have power to burn doing dps every 30seconds and forcing that is just a piss poor way of telling guilds they need to have others sit out in favor of more and more priests. For a guild like mine that only has 4 fighters, the shadowy fighter should be by FAR the most challenging of the 4 random mobs to deal with. We already have to be tanking Chel'drak and the skeleton adds that spawn, and then fighters need to be killing this mob too. That should be a problem for us, not that we need to get more healers than any other archetype because they need to heal a raid and be killing a mob on their own. I dont care if this is a heroic mob, the idea that a raid should have enough healers to heal a x4 orange con raid mob, some epic level 74 adds, AND be the only dps on level 74 heroic adds is stupid.
In summary, this is a fun, somewhat unique, and challenging encounter. I do like it, but I find the priest requirement foolish. Scouts and mages are meant to dps. Fighters are meant to tank and if not tanking dps. Healers are meant to buff and heal. Dont force healers to dps on top of their role. Its dumb.
posted by Ishbu at 7:43 AM
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